Wanting to quit

Wanting to quit. Interesting feeling. Not wanting to die. Not wanting to quit life. Not wanting to quit existing. Just quit. No quit what. No when. No why. Just quit. Nothing else. Just quit.

But what does that mean, to me, at least? I don't know. It's not quit living, that's not the thought, the feeling or the emotion. Not resignation, defeat, leaving, going, whatever else. Just the simple word. Quit.

It's the feeling. To sit down and just let life go by. It's the feeling. To sit there with a blank mind looking out with no thought, feeling or emotion. Just sitting.

To get up and walk, just walk, and keeping walking, nowhere, just going one foot at a time somewhere except here. To hope it never ends and I never tire.

To stand up and let life just drain from me, onto the floor. To feel empty, totally empty, nothing. To sit in the pre-dawn darkness and hope the sun never rises, to feel the darkness surround and enveloe me, and dissolve into it.

To stand surrounded by the light with the edge of the sun just below the horizon spreading all around. To feel the cold just before the first rays hits my face. To feel the light and warmth of the first rays of the sun. To feel the light just go through me forever. To feel the cold of the morning slowly slip away with the darkness.

To stand in the forest during a rainstorm. To feel the rain fall. Constant, never ceasing, never letting, just falling. To feel it on and around me. The sound against me. The smell. The feel. To disappear in it and into it. Into everything else. Nothing else, just rain.

To stand in a snowstorm surrounded by white. Everywhere. To feel the blizzard, the snow swirling all around finding me, to settle on me, and dissappear into the white. To be lost in the white. And the snow.

To stand in the middle of a stream like a boulder, the water flowing over and around me, not knowing anything else. To feel the cold, flowing water wearing me down, slowly. moving me during floods like all the rocks and boulders. To stop anew somewhere, nowhere but still in the stream, like nothing happened.

To stand in desert surrounded by sand. The heat, the wind, and the sand. Nothing else. Just another particle on the wind. To be one of the vastness of openness where all is sand, wind, heat and time. Nothing else.

To sit on the edge of the Grand Canyon, the depth of time below, the vastness of space around, and the sky above. To know time has been, time is and time will always be. And be there for a moment, lost with the rest of everything and lost in time with everything.

To quit being and just be. Nothing more. Just be. No thought, No feeling. No emotion. The spiriting wanting. The soul wondering. The mind empty. The body just there. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just nothing.

To quit. To feel alive.

Inside a cloud

I was trying to think of a way to describe my experience with Dythymia, and I would drawn to the idea when people visit Paradise in Mt. Rainier NP. Paradise is as the name implies, wonderful and beautiful, and through the sunmer it's majestic. Many people go there during the summer and don't see the other seasons and many other different times there and in the NP.

I've been there when the clouds cover the region and lose the mountain from view. And being there you realize you standing inside a cloud, a massive storm front cloud, surrounded by everything cloud. And your visibility, if you're lucky, is a few hundred feet at best. And after a minute you feel the water droplets encasing you into the cloud itself. You become part of the cloud.

I's always an amazing feeling then and there. To just stand there and feel the cloud envelope you and the water forms on your clothes, your (exposed) skin, and for me, my glasses. It doesn't matter to wipe it off as it reforms almost as quickly. The cloud simply makes you one of the object inside it and a part of it. You're lost in and being part of the cloud.

That's what it's like. Except the cloud is the world and life, engulfiing you in a world surrouded on all sides by the world you can't see out. You can only feel the immediate world around, hanging on you, engulfing you, and becoming you. You and the world merge into the one where all you see and know is the world as a cloud. Everything else is gone, long outside the cloud, beyond your horizon, and even your imagination and memory.

The cloud is outside and iinside of you. You become a cloud within a cloud, lost when the inside and outside merge into one, including you, your mind, your heart, all of you. You know and feel what is and yet you know it's just the situation and circumstance. You know you're in a cloud, and yet there is nothing yhou can do or think to change it.

You can only stand there and wait. Let things pass and the weather will change to rrain, snow or sunshine. You don't know because the cloud doesn't know what will happen. That's determined by the situation and circumstances outside the cloud and you. You can change some things, even your emotions, feelings and thoughts, but always inside and surrounded by the cloud.

There is no out. Mentally walk as you want, it's doesn't change. The cloud doesn't follow you, it's always just there, More cloud. And then there will be a moment when you think and feel like a cloud. The cloud. The one you're in and the one you are. But then everything doesn't feel bad, not even just what is, but ok. Comfort.

Your whole world isn't a cloud but a whole universe. Your universe. And it's suddenly not a cloud but that whole universe. You realize it goes on forever, not restricted but something of itself and connected to everything else. It hasn't changed. You have. And it's not bad or sad. Just is and what it is. What you are.

And then it's no longer a cloud. Others, outside, may see or think it's a cloud. That's all they see, the cloud and you somewhere deep inside, lost to them and the world. But it's not. It's a world just different from theirs. It's yours, the cloud and you, and now you know it will be and get better, sunshine or not.

You don't need sunshine. You know the cloud isn't the limitation to you, it's just where you are for the moment, and you know it won't last when weather changes. You've seen and felt the cloud from the inside, You've been a part of it. And even when the sun comes, you'll remember the cloud and what it was like, how it felt, how it enveloped you, and how you found solace and understanding, of the cloud and of yourself.

And the next time, you'll know and learn again and anew about the inside of clouds.

Warm & fuzzy feelgoods

I've written adneseum about support groups, and yes, I still read them occasionally. There interesting in some ways, and perhaps helps in many other ways where people know they're not alone and know others apparently care. I say apparently because I wonder if forums are just another warm and fuzzy feelgood, kinda' the Internet hug. Good for the time you're reading it but gone not long after you leave the forum.

I say this because when someone talks about their depression or other feelings, there's some to many responses about "caring" for them, but that's all they are. They don't know each other outside the forum, so if told some stranger about your depression and only got a sympathic or empathic look and a hug back, would it matter? Would it help?

I mean really help how you're feeling and how you can get through, resolve or answer some problem, issue or feeling? Wouldn't talking with someone who knows you or knows your situation or circumstances help more? Wouldn't they be better in the long run to help you change?

So why do so many use these forums instead of finding real people who really know and care?

Yes, I know many don't have friends or can't afford drugs or therapists, and many don't want to talk about their feelings and emotions with others who are so close, but they'll talk to total strangers they know very little if anything about in forums?

I'm not the one to critcize or complain, I'm just observing. And I know these forums helps many, just expressing their thoughts out loud to a group of strangers far away who don't have that real connection to them. Sometimes just shouting helps and the more it's anonymous the better.

It's why I love solo walking and hiking. To stand in places where no is at the moment and feel totally alone. Almost the opposite of those who love to stand in crowds and be anonymous. It's our own individual way of seeing where and who we are in the world, and it doesn't really matter how, just that it does.

In the end, it's not any of that which really matters, but what you think and feel in your heart and mind, and sometimes a warm and fuzzy feelgood hits the spot, an emotional scoop of ice cream when it's most needed and tastes great. And who cares five minutes later.

Suppot Groups II

I wrote about the move of a depression support group to a social networking Website. And the owner explained the reasons for the move from the standalone forum to the networking Website, specifically to increase membership and reduce the work. She is a very busy person and running her own Website and forum was time-consuming for the time available. I can't argue with that.

What I can argue though is the idea that a person automatically assumes a decision and subsequent action is better because they feel or think it will make it better. Let's be clear there. Intention itself doesn't make any decision better and the decision and subsequent action good and right, only different.

As the old saying goes, a major change isn't always the optimium, let alone the best solution. It only makes it better for the person making the decision, or so they hope. In this case, it helped to reduce the work with the forum by moving all the operation and most of the management to the social networking company. She only needs to the address what options are in choices for the presentation, management, etc. of the Website and forum.

It could be argued that in the long run her time won't be that much less. First, she had to learn their system for the features she wanted and then set them up. This is and was no different than the other forum, only she doesn't operate and manage the application of the Website and forum. That's a savings of time, except it puts that work on the company's timetable to fit their work needs.

What it did reduce is that the membership process is now under the social networking company and their Website and not her. This provides her considerably more users and anyone on the Website can join the forum, she can't stop them, even though they may join for social networking than depression. There are questions that haven't been answered yet.

First, will those who felt that had some degree of privacy - which they didn't as the old forum was fully readable by the public and search engines - but more so a sense of shared experience. People only joined the group if they had some measure of depression or knew some with some measure of depression. That is now gone.

Second, will expanding the membership dilute the the content of the forum. It's reasonable to assume few people will join for just socializing, but as any forum has experienced, it invites the number of people you least need or want on them, people who have no understanding of depression and don't mind expressing less than supportive and positive views about depressed people. Or worse.

Third, it does open up the members of the old forum to the wider audience of services and people who use the user information on social networking Website for other purposes, like phishing or hacking (eg. Yahoo). Having to be a member of the larger social network would prompt some to provide less information than they did before, making it harder for others to really understand who they are.

Fourth, the organization of this one is entirely different than the old one. Many of the topics for specific aspects of depression are either lost of merged into one. While maybe a good thing for the casual user, not good for those with specific conditions or situations. Their measure of identity was lost, unless of course they want to express it to wider, less focused group.

In the end, the choice to move the forum has both advantages and disadvantages for the owner and the users. Everything has a price, but to me, socializing depression isn't usually a good thing. It can help some but it can also drive more away from support and help they truly need and want. And there are good examples, such as suicide.

Suppose the suicide telephone support and help folks decided to move their service to a general psychology help line, like when you call and get a prerecorded message with the list of options and hear, "Press 2 if you have thoughts of suicide." And then, "Please hold for the next available help person."

What would you do then? Like duh. Yeah, extreme example, but it not any different than someone standing up in a support group meeting to express their deepest personal problems or standing up in a theater full of people to express those same problems. Where would you think they will get more and better help?

Yes, I'm still a member of both the social networking Website and this forum, but outside of providing the minimum information, I only go there occasionally to find nothing has changed from what I expected. A little bit of everything, good, bad and indifferent. Just like any social networking Website and forums, but certainly not a dedicated depression forum.

Support Groups

What do you do when an on-line support group you like and visit daily decides to move their forum from a stand-alone Website to a social network Website, and then integrate the forum into the larger number of forums where anyone can become a member, not just those who want or need the support?

Well, that's what happened to Wing of Madness. The Website used to operate a forum using one of the commerical software packages for forum, similar to many other Websites with forums. It allowed the Website owner to control every aspect of the forum as well as the membership. You had to meet their criteria to join.

Social network Websites are almost the exact opposite. Forums are just one of the applications available to members, you can join any of them as long as you're registered and a member of the network. After that, everything is there and free. And the design of the forum is far less controlled by the forum owner and moderators but the company running the network Website.

In short, any forum is at their mercy over the rules, design, features, etc. within the agreement between the owner and network Website. But most of all, the owner doesn't and can't control the membership of the forum, so a specialized forum which provides information, support and help to many people now becomes just another social network forum.

And to some measure, privacy is lost. Once you're a member of the social network, you have to "live" within their rules, and as much as you want to be anonymous or restrict access to your profile and personal information, you can't. You can to some degree if the settings work correctly, but social networks are designed to share, so there are always ways to see anyone. You simply can't hide. You can only minimize the information you provide.

I ended up joining the social network and forum, for now, but I'm not holding my breath I'll stay very long. Everything about the forum is different in the organization, structure and user settings, the privacy issue is important, I joined the forum for the forum, not the larger social network (because of friends already on 3 others), and I'm not enamored with the social network concept for the forum on depression.

Anyway, I posted my opinion of this decision and left, and don't go back very often now. Sometimes waving good bye is a good thing, where you look ahead at the horizon and surroudings instead of behind and you look at the future than the past. I hope the move helps, I just don't see that right now, because increase the quantity (membership and participation) won't necessarily improve the quality.